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Gruen V1 Precision [message #5726]

Thu, 23 July 2015 22:31

jackrgladden
Messages: 2
Registered: July 2015
Location: Dallas area

Gruen Apprentice

We have been working on identifying this one for a while - Gruen verithin pentagonal pocketwatch - for another watchmaker. It needs a staff (both pivots are broken) that I am trying to find a staff for, specs for a staff, or someone to repivot it for me. Attaching pictures to show watch, any help would be appreciated.

We have managed to track down that it is a Swiss chronometer extra precision and know that none of the book info for a V1 is correct for this watch. The balance has the roller jewel mounted in the arm of the balance itself. The guard for the roller is a separate unit at the very base of the staff. Would like to know more about the watch, it's specs, and origin. The watch identifies as a V1 via labeling and fingerprinting but is a 21 jewel chronometer version instead of a 17 or 19 jewel.

We have tried both staffs that are for a V1 and they do not fit
index.php?t=getfile&id=2385&private=0

Attachment: Gruen PW CNC027 003 small.jpg
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Attachment: Gruen PW CNC027 004 small.jpg
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Attachment: Gruen PW CNC027 001 med.jpg
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Attachment: Gruen PW CNC027 002 med.jpg
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Jack R Gladden

[Updated on: Sun, 04 February 2018 20:13] by Moderator

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Re: Gruen Verithin pentagonal pocketwatch [message #5728 is a reply to message #5726]

Fri, 24 July 2015 05:51

Gary
Messages: 2189
Registered: May 2013
Location: Seattle

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Hello Jack,

Welcome to the forum. Can you post a higher resolution picture of the movement. Also what does the dial inscription read, T??? Gruen?

I'm sure some of our pocket watch gurus will be along to help.

Cheers!
Gary

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Re: Gruen Verithin pentagonal pocketwatch [message #5729 is a reply to message #5726]

Fri, 24 July 2015 10:09

Barney Green
Messages: 1755
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

From what I can see that looks like a regular V1. The 17 and 19 jewelled versions would be V3 and V2, for what I know the 21 jewel extra precision version has been the V1.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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Re: Gruen Verithin pentagonal pocketwatch [message #5732 is a reply to message #5729]

Fri, 24 July 2015 17:24

jackrgladden
Messages: 2
Registered: July 2015
Location: Dallas area

Gruen Apprentice

I edited the two pictures to a higher resolution per Gary's request. The dial says Dietrich Gruen. We have tried the staffs that fit a V1 and they are not compatible with this watch, even with machining/alteration

Jack R Gladden

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Re: Gruen Verithin pentagonal pocketwatch [message #5733 is a reply to message #5732]

Fri, 24 July 2015 18:30

Gary
Messages: 2189
Registered: May 2013
Location: Seattle

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

Now seeing the better picture I agree with Bernd's comment that looks to be a V1 extra precision. The 1945 (545) Material Catalog indicates that these models have a friction type balance staff. Not much more that I can add.

The only thing I can think of would be to get a picture of the movement dial side and take a look at the intermediate bridge. That would confirm it.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 July 2015 18:31]

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Re: Gruen Verithin pentagonal pocketwatch [message #5736 is a reply to message #5733]

Sat, 25 July 2015 04:19

JackW
Messages: 1998
Registered: May 2013
Location: Denver

Gruen Authority
Head Janitor
Site Admin

Can you do a better picture of the balance wheel you posted. It is a bit small. I have some V1 PW parts; but I'm also sure that I'm not the only one here with some.

All I know is based on hard work & writing by others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. -me

"If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Newton

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Re: Gruen Verithin pentagonal pocketwatch [message #5738 is a reply to message #5736]

Tue, 28 July 2015 15:46

Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France

Gruen Master

I can only confirm what has been concluded already that the movement is definitely a V1. As Gary is saying the V1, V2 and V3 Extra Precision are the only Gruen movements that had a friction type staff. I'm surprised that the staffs you have are not fitting.

Two questions that come to mind; are the staffs you have tried original and secondly are the not for a V1.5 movement?

Some more info on this caliber taken from the 1916 Gruen Blue Book.

"Fine ruby jewels, raised solid gold settings, chronometer balance of stationary adjustment, patent gold train wheel system, isochronal brequet hairspring, double roller precision steel escapement, stop guard, poised fork, gold train, patent regulator, adjusted to all positions, temperatures and isochronism."

I have a doubt that the dial is original though. Dietrich Gruen signed dials were only used for the top of the line Ultra Thin (UT), Ultra Ultra Thin (UUT) movements and for the special Power Reserve and Minute Repeater movements.

One indicator can be if the dial feet are at their original position or have been moved. Then again, Gruen was not always consistent with regards to dials, so it could be original.

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Re: Gruen Verithin pentagonal pocketwatch [message #5745 is a reply to message #5738]

Sat, 01 August 2015 02:37

Thojil
Messages: 650
Registered: May 2013
Location: Concorès, France

Gruen Master

Could you confirm the case serial and engraved date? It's not clear from the picture. I'm compiling a Gruen pocket watch database and dated ones are always very welcome.

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