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Caliber 515SS [message #15521]

Thu, 16 September 2021 14:16

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Here’s a later caliber, found in style number 1046 cases (1960s?). The case & movement are made in France. Imagine my surprise to see it stamped for Alpina!

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=8521&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=8521&private=0

Attachment: 0753C935-0EC1-4F39-97A8-1E9734073AF9.jpeg
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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #15524 is a reply to message #15521]

Thu, 16 September 2021 15:52

Gary
Messages: 2209
Registered: May 2013
Location: Seattle

Gruen Authority
Cheerleader

That's a good discovery! We'll have to update the factory document and encompass Alpina into the 50's/60's with Gruen. This era we don't touch on too often, I assume a lot of the electric movements are from France too.

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #15526 is a reply to message #15524]

Thu, 16 September 2021 16:12

afire
Messages: 1357
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin

Gruen Authority

Are we talking about the little triangle with a circle in it? I have no clue what Alpina was up to this late, and am not much more knowledgeable about late Gruen, for that matter. But this would be the first time I've heard of any evidence of a relationship after the dissolution of the original partnership in the 1930s.

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #15527 is a reply to message #15526]

Thu, 16 September 2021 16:57

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

yes, that's alpina's mark. but was it the german arm, that became dugena?

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #17306 is a reply to message #15527]

Sat, 17 September 2022 00:35

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

Missed this post but found it after czeching out some of my Gruen Industries watches bc of latest talk.

I found I have one of these 515ss from France, no Alpina mark like yours, that is curious! Was Alpina finishing these for Gruen? Also a Style 046. But I got interested in Jeambrun the ebauche maker, fascinating company, good start here.

https://rbfc-gertrude-diffusion-prod.atolcd.com/dossier/usin e-d-horlogerie-usine-d-ebauches-de-montre-joseph-jeambrun-pu is-d-ebauches-de-mouvements-et-de-montres-france-ebauches/2d 39fb47-903e-496a-9261-dafb7c5e21b3#doc

They are clearly high quality watches. The case is stainless and also made in France. Man, I'd love to find out the casemaker. Any ideas?
My serial is 30148. It fits somewhere!
All in all it's kinda cool having an all French Gruen..Didn't realize I had one til today.

Matthias

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #17336 is a reply to message #15527]

Thu, 22 September 2022 17:00

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

Case wrote on Thu, 16 September 2021 10:57

yes, that's alpina's mark. but was it the german arm, that became dugena?

This symbol was also used for Alpina Gruen.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9954&private=0

Attachment: 20220922_105521.jpg
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Matthias

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #17340 is a reply to message #17336]

Fri, 23 September 2022 12:20

Barney Green
Messages: 1755
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

I'd assume that the ebauche was delivered to Alpina as well and probably by accident Gruen got an already Alpina marked base plate. Also possible that Alpina had cancelled an order while Gruen needed more movements and accepted the Alpina marked plates. At that time the two companies had long separated and did not work together at all.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Fri, 23 September 2022 12:21]

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #17341 is a reply to message #17340]

Fri, 23 September 2022 16:58

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

Barney Green wrote on Fri, 23 September 2022 06:20

I'd assume that the ebauche was delivered to Alpina as well and probably by accident Gruen got an already Alpina marked base plate. Also possible that Alpina had cancelled an order while Gruen needed more movements and accepted the Alpina marked plates. At that time the two companies had long separated and did not work together at all.

Hi Bernd. Would you then know the Alpina equivalent calibre number? I'd really like to take a look at it.

Ok thanks for feedback. Your theories make sense. While I understand that Alpina and Gruen were not known to be connected in this period, I thought it could be possibility...but still this movement Dan is referencing still interest me.

Check this out, upon closer inspection, in fact there does seem to be some mark on my movement in almost the exact same spot as Dan's Alpina mark🤷‍♀️ Just thought that was interesting too

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9955&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9955&private=0

Attachment: 20220923_105152.jpg
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Matthias

[Updated on: Fri, 23 September 2022 17:19]

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #17342 is a reply to message #17341]

Fri, 23 September 2022 18:26

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

"I'd love to find out the casemaker. Any ideas?
My serial is 30148. It fits somewhere!".

Several comments and old sales claim that these watches were made for Gruen by Yema. But I have yet to see any supporting evidence or solid proof of that.

Matthias

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #17346 is a reply to message #17342]

Mon, 26 September 2022 12:36

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

For reference, mine is case 17990. No other clues that I can see.

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=9957&private=0

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[Updated on: Mon, 26 September 2022 12:36]

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #17347 is a reply to message #17346]

Mon, 26 September 2022 13:06

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Btw, possibilities for a French-made stainless case are few in the 1960s:
-Zuccolo, Rochet, Maillet & Co (Z.R.C)
-Alber Freres
-SBBM Burdet Freres — see patent FR869033. Similar?
-Frainier

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #17350 is a reply to message #17347]

Mon, 26 September 2022 17:23

Barney Green
Messages: 1755
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

Probably I should also post info about my 515SS based watch. Mine is style # 047, case serial number is 4975, so probably pretty early. It is a 1957 Super Gruen Pilot, also completely marked France on case, dial and movement. It is Strap 007, and therewith has the license to kill, most likely with the Radium lume...
No hint on the case maker at all.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

[Updated on: Mon, 26 September 2022 17:28]

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #17351 is a reply to message #17350]

Mon, 26 September 2022 19:39

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

Barney, Case-

Thanks for the feedback and data. One company that I am considering is LIP montres. They have a known Gruen connection from 30's. They made stainless cases in 60's. They also used this Jeambrun ebauche 26D extensively, as D26. Other similarities as well such as outside caseback stamps.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203115101726

I have yet to find the Alpina version.

Matthias

[Updated on: Mon, 26 September 2022 21:16]

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #17352 is a reply to message #17351]

Mon, 26 September 2022 19:59

Barney Green
Messages: 1755
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

"I have yet to find the Alpina version."

If it ever existed in series volumes. I was not able to find an Alpina or Dugena equivalent yet.

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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Re: Caliber 515SS [message #17880 is a reply to message #17352]

Sun, 18 December 2022 20:16

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

I recently came across a French produced watch case with a stamp I did not recognize so with posterity and this thread in mind:

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=10280&private=0

/vgforum/index.php?t=getfile&id=10280&private=0

Any ideas?

Attachment: s-l1600 - 2022-12-17T171527.762.jpg
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Matthias

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