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Cartouche 23 [message #13559]

Mon, 31 August 2020 01:24

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

Model name : Cartouche 23, Sapphire variant
Type : Cartouche
Period/date : 1924-26
Gender : Female

Case Maker : GRUEN Cincinnati
Case Material : 14k white gold, Sapphires
Case Serial :1084398
Case Style no : 53

Caliber : Cal 833 (Rolex 250)
Movement Maker : Aegler
Movement Serial:1380797

Bracelet : Speidel. Not original.

Other info :.

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Matthias

[Updated on: Wed, 02 September 2020 15:53]

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Re: Cartouche [message #13562 is a reply to message #13559]

Mon, 31 August 2020 12:50

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Very shiny! I’d say 1924 on this one. Maybe 25

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: Cartouche [message #13573 is a reply to message #13562]

Mon, 31 August 2020 19:15

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

Case wrote on Mon, 31 August 2020 06:50

Very shiny! I’d say 1924 on this one. Maybe 25

Shiny like a treasure from a sunken pirate wreck
Scrub the deck and make it look Shiny!
I will sparkle like a wealthy woman's neck
Just a sec!

Thanks for the year, have not been able to match this in Gruen Book.

Matthias

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Re: Cartouche [message #13577 is a reply to message #13573]

Mon, 31 August 2020 20:16

Barney Green
Messages: 1755
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

Matthias,

this Cartouche is gorgous looking! Exactly what I like.

My dating would come up with a 1925/26 date, so definitely in the range. I assume that it is a Cartouche 23 with sapphires instead of diamonds. I love the stone settings being an hommage to the Pentagons, absolutely Gruenish!

Definitely the style of Gruens I like most.

Barney

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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Re: Cartouche [message #13627 is a reply to message #13577]

Wed, 02 September 2020 05:42

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

Bernd, thanks for your feedback. I agree it does look somewhat similar. I've been going back & forth on this and a lot of time so I am confident that it is not a sapphire version Cartouche 23. The pattern on 23 is a different motif than this one. This has unique "dots" on each side between the scrolls. 23 also lacks the distinct "pentagon" border around the stones like Cartouche 24 has on it, as mine does.
For now I'm going with; I have yet to see an exact match. So many seemingly missing Cartouche entries....

Matthias

[Updated on: Wed, 02 September 2020 06:37]

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Re: Cartouche [message #13628 is a reply to message #13627]

Wed, 02 September 2020 07:08

afire
Messages: 1354
Registered: May 2013
Location: Wisconsin

Gruen Authority

Ephemerald wrote on Wed, 02 September 2020 00:42

Bernd, thanks for your feedback. I agree it does look somewhat similar. I've been going back & forth on this and a lot of time so I am confident that it is not a sapphire version Cartouche 23. The pattern on 23 is a different motif than this one. This has unique "dots" on each side between the scrolls. 23 also lacks the distinct "pentagon" border around the stones like Cartouche 24 has on it, as mine does.
For now I'm going with; I have yet to see an exact match. So many seemingly missing Cartouche entries....

Some models evolved over time. This seems particularly true of out of the ordinary niche models. My impression is that what's found in the the Master Book represents the most recent version of any given model. I'll post a few examples later. No opinion on this watch, but with a hand carved fancy jeweled case, I would suggest the possibility that the nearest match may be the correct ID.

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Re: Cartouche [message #13629 is a reply to message #13628]

Wed, 02 September 2020 13:13

Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati

Gruen Authority

Cartouche 23 came in a couple of options, based on a 1924 ad in our ref thread showing cost ranges $85-100. Not sure all variants would’ve been captured in the Master Book—only a representative model (the advertising model?)

My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more

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Re: Cartouche [message #13632 is a reply to message #13629]

Wed, 02 September 2020 15:12

Barney Green
Messages: 1755
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany

Gruen Authority

The patterns definitely varied as these cases were hand engraved. ANd it looks like different engravers had different patterns...

Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)

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Re: Cartouche [message #13633 is a reply to message #13629]

Wed, 02 September 2020 15:42

Ephemerald
Messages: 1039
Registered: October 2018
Location: City of Lake Salt

Gruen Authority

Case wrote on Wed, 02 September 2020 07:13

Cartouche 23 came in a couple of options, based on a 1924 ad in our ref thread showing cost ranges $85-100. Not sure all variants would’ve been captured in the Master Book—only a representative model (the advertising model?)

Definitely 23 came with options. Yeah I was looking at the ads to help me my decision. It just seemed many 23 had some sort of ...foliage pattern on most of them.

Just now am I understanding how varied these cases can be from carver to carver....
I was always thinking they had a template to stick to but may be they had more allowance than I assumed.
23 is the closest match. 23 it is...
Thanks for all feedback and Afire, I'd love to see some examples!

Matthias

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