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| Re: Caliber 615 [message #14358 is a reply to message #14355] |
Fri, 15 January 2021 20:47   |
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Case
Messages: 1178
Registered: May 2019
Location: Cincinnati
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Gruen Authority |
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Adding a few details about this caliber's origin. I think it involves two Biel companies: Aegler & Concord.
The movement is based on a flagship movement for Concord Watch Company (mikrolisk points to Eugene Ducommun-Roulet, then Theodore Schaedeli). But it has unique features, including the bridges. As you will see, it is almost impossible to say who made vs. who finished this caliber, but I am pretty sure it started with Concord and finished at Aegler. This is the first Concord Watch Co base I know of in the Gruen arsenal. Perhaps that is why it is not an 8XX series like other Aeglers--it could also be an Aegler 615, or it could have come first, before caliber #s were shared.
Both makers seem to have been in this serial number range near 1913, when the regulatory marks changed to allow #s only for jewels & adjustments. It is certain that Rolex was sourcing Concord movements for its pocket & wrist watches in lesser sub-brands, but they were also using bespoke variants (presumably finished by Aegler) for the Rolex brand itself.
Here's a link to the base Concord caliber. A later serial number (186k, ca1915-1918), but you can see front plate & slightly different setting bits.
There are 4 features of the 615 I used to conclude Aegler supplied to Gruen:
- the Click - Concord didn't use; Rolex did (example)
- the Serial number - Aegler used a last 4 on front plate; Concord had full serial numbers (see above base caliber link)
- the Bridges - no exact match observed yet; multiple variants in Rolex, Concord always the same
- the Stud carrier - this screw carrier is characteristic on all Concords of this time; Aegler did not use this on Rebbergs movements, but here is a Rolex cased in 1919 with the Concord base, custom finger bridges, the screw carrier--and the hallmark Concord click.
Not totally conclusive, but wanted to share.
My two caveats:
1) I'm wrong many times a day --just ask my wife!
2) Always seeking to learn more
[Updated on: Fri, 15 January 2021 21:03] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Caliber 615 [message #14473 is a reply to message #14472] |
Thu, 04 February 2021 21:04 |
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Barney Green
Messages: 1726
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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Gruen Authority |
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Dan,
I am sorry, but in my personal opinion the caliber Gruen caliber 615 and the Concord movement you linked do not share more than the size. I can't see a match in any aspect, I think that is what you later meant by it being a Glycine 80 caliber.
The Vertex movement may be a later generation of the same ebauche used for Gruen 615 though. There are many similarities, too bad that we cannot see the dial side.
But for none of the movements I can see a relation to Aegler.
BTW, the ebauche of cal. 615 has some features which make me think of Lavina as source, but I may be wrong here.
Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
[Updated on: Thu, 04 February 2021 21:05] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Caliber 615 [message #14475 is a reply to message #14474] |
Fri, 05 February 2021 13:25 |
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Barney Green
Messages: 1726
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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Gruen Authority |
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I can exclude Lavina as source because they did not go below 13 ligne with their production portfolio at that time. 1917 they extended their product line to 9 ligne, 8 3/4 ligne in 1932. So it is impossible that they made this 7 3/4 ligne movement.
Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
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| Re: Caliber 615 [message #15417 is a reply to message #15416] |
Tue, 07 September 2021 07:01 |
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Barney Green
Messages: 1726
Registered: February 2014
Location: Wolfsburg, Germany
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Gruen Authority |
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Hi Dan,
ups, sorry, I thought I shared this one already but looks like I did not. In March I finally ID'd Cal. 615 to be from Fabrique Aureole. Here it is:
This is a snip from a November 1921 ad which also shows the Carouche movement you referenced from ebay:
Barney
Gruen, Gruen, Gruen ist alles was ich habe... Gruen, Gruen, Gruen is all I have...(German folklore song)
[Updated on: Tue, 07 September 2021 09:57] Report message to a moderator |
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